1 00:00:20,660 --> 00:00:09,530 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:26,279 --> 00:00:23,400 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:31,019 --> 00:00:26,289 episode number 95 on this friday the 4 00:00:32,519 --> 00:00:31,029 13th friday the 13th of august 2010 5 00:00:35,340 --> 00:00:32,529 Richard Saunders here with you from a 6 00:00:38,189 --> 00:00:35,350 very nice pleasant sunny Sydney 7 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:38,199 Australia on this week's show we have an 8 00:00:42,329 --> 00:00:39,489 interview in fact we have two interviews 9 00:00:45,149 --> 00:00:42,339 from Tam eight amazing meeting eight 10 00:00:47,729 --> 00:00:45,159 just gone in Las Vegas the first one dr. 11 00:00:50,100 --> 00:00:47,739 Richie talks to Derek bar follow mouse 12 00:00:52,770 --> 00:00:50,110 from the Jenny McCarthy body count 13 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:52,780 website very interesting to hear about 14 00:00:57,750 --> 00:00:55,210 why he set up this particular website 15 00:00:59,630 --> 00:00:57,760 and that's followed by an interview I 16 00:01:02,490 --> 00:00:59,640 conducted with captain disillusion 17 00:01:06,539 --> 00:01:02,500 famous for here's our YouTube videos 18 00:01:08,130 --> 00:01:06,549 exposing all sorts of trickery before we 19 00:01:10,679 --> 00:01:08,140 get on with the show I just like to 20 00:01:13,620 --> 00:01:10,689 remind everybody to visit the blog of 21 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:13,630 the young Australian skeptics and that's 22 00:01:21,710 --> 00:01:19,450 ww young a us skeptics young skeptics 23 00:01:24,540 --> 00:01:21,720 calm and you know what they're always 24 00:01:26,310 --> 00:01:24,550 eager to find people to contribute or 25 00:01:28,380 --> 00:01:26,320 help contribute to their blog if you 26 00:01:29,970 --> 00:01:28,390 have any ideas you'd like to i wake up 27 00:01:32,970 --> 00:01:29,980 there on the internet it gets thousands 28 00:01:35,580 --> 00:01:32,980 of hits run along too young of skeptics 29 00:01:37,950 --> 00:01:35,590 calm and drop them align maybe your 30 00:01:41,250 --> 00:01:37,960 contribution will end up on their blog 31 00:01:44,700 --> 00:01:41,260 certainly worth a look but for now sit 32 00:01:47,969 --> 00:01:44,710 back let me see I think I'll grab myself 33 00:02:04,130 --> 00:01:47,979 a dirty martini and enjoy this week's 34 00:02:09,359 --> 00:02:06,780 Derek by polymers is a longtime member 35 00:02:12,660 --> 00:02:09,369 of the independent investigations group 36 00:02:14,850 --> 00:02:12,670 aig the AI geez mission is to 37 00:02:16,860 --> 00:02:14,860 investigate fringe science paranormal 38 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:16,870 and extraordinary claims from a rational 39 00:02:22,290 --> 00:02:20,050 scientific point of view and disseminate 40 00:02:25,500 --> 00:02:22,300 factual information about such inquiries 41 00:02:27,780 --> 00:02:25,510 to the public Derek is on the AIG 42 00:02:30,479 --> 00:02:27,790 steering committee and he is the lead 43 00:02:33,630 --> 00:02:30,489 investigator into claims of billy meier 44 00:02:35,850 --> 00:02:33,640 the iig is an all-volunteer organization 45 00:02:37,979 --> 00:02:35,860 that meets on the third Saturday of 46 00:02:40,430 --> 00:02:37,989 every month at the Center for inquiry 47 00:02:42,690 --> 00:02:40,440 Los Angeles or we should a visit that 48 00:02:44,100 --> 00:02:42,700 Derek works professionally in the 49 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:44,110 entertainment industry as a 50 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:46,690 post-production producer on various TV 51 00:02:52,170 --> 00:02:49,570 shows Derek is also the creator of the 52 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:52,180 Jenny McCarthy body count website which 53 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:54,370 tracks the number of vaccine preventable 54 00:02:59,070 --> 00:02:56,770 illnesses and vaccine preventable deaths 55 00:03:01,380 --> 00:02:59,080 that have occurred since jenny mccarthy 56 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:01,390 started telling parents not to vaccinate 57 00:03:27,540 --> 00:03:04,210 their children 58 00:03:33,700 --> 00:03:31,510 as you can probably tell i'm in a bar 59 00:03:35,890 --> 00:03:33,710 time eight in las vegas at the south 60 00:03:38,350 --> 00:03:35,900 point casino and then some very happy 61 00:03:40,390 --> 00:03:38,360 skeptics here including one Derek 62 00:03:42,610 --> 00:03:40,400 Buffalo mouse Derek welcome to the 63 00:03:44,230 --> 00:03:42,620 sketches own thank you I'm very happy 64 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:44,240 you everyone is just pretty happy 65 00:03:49,900 --> 00:03:47,410 tonight alcohol does that it does 66 00:03:51,250 --> 00:03:49,910 there's also a lot going on tonight and 67 00:03:53,350 --> 00:03:51,260 it is a magic show going on upstairs 68 00:03:55,390 --> 00:03:53,360 there's drinking skeptically in a bar 69 00:03:56,949 --> 00:03:55,400 across the room so I'm heading over 70 00:03:58,810 --> 00:03:56,959 there after this what about you oh yes 71 00:04:00,190 --> 00:03:58,820 and then there's another drinking and 72 00:04:02,860 --> 00:04:00,200 then there's more and then there's stuff 73 00:04:06,070 --> 00:04:02,870 in them in there's skeptics in the tub 74 00:04:07,870 --> 00:04:06,080 in the tub yeah which happened last 75 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:07,880 night to it so that's basically what 76 00:04:11,729 --> 00:04:09,290 happens is everyone jumps into the hot 77 00:04:14,860 --> 00:04:11,739 tub at eleven o'clock at night and 78 00:04:16,860 --> 00:04:14,870 skeptical stuff happens I don't know it 79 00:04:19,210 --> 00:04:16,870 was probably other stuff yeah but yeah 80 00:04:21,210 --> 00:04:19,220 you know what happens in Vegas stays in 81 00:04:24,550 --> 00:04:21,220 Vegas right so we don't talk about it 82 00:04:27,310 --> 00:04:24,560 now I just found out that you are the 83 00:04:29,980 --> 00:04:27,320 guy that set up Jenny McCarthy body 84 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:29,990 count website mm-hmm I did not know that 85 00:04:35,650 --> 00:04:33,530 so for our listeners who don't know what 86 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:35,660 Jenny McCarthy body count is can you 87 00:04:39,460 --> 00:04:36,890 tell them a little bit about the website 88 00:04:41,230 --> 00:04:39,470 the the Jenny McCarthy body count tracks 89 00:04:43,390 --> 00:04:41,240 the number of vaccine preventable 90 00:04:45,460 --> 00:04:43,400 illnesses and vaccine preventable deaths 91 00:04:47,409 --> 00:04:45,470 that have occurred since jenny mccarthy 92 00:04:50,110 --> 00:04:47,419 started telling parents not to vaccinate 93 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:50,120 their children right yeah so where do 94 00:04:56,500 --> 00:04:51,770 you how long have you had the site going 95 00:05:00,700 --> 00:04:56,510 it launched a last April well last week 96 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:00,710 end of March of 2009 2009 yes and and 97 00:05:06,460 --> 00:05:04,610 then tam 7 was my very first tam that I 98 00:05:08,890 --> 00:05:06,470 ever attended and then I ended up going 99 00:05:11,370 --> 00:05:08,900 on the anti anti backs panel 100 00:05:15,370 --> 00:05:11,380 oh right okay so that was just 101 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:15,380 astounding Wow and so yeah the sites 102 00:05:21,939 --> 00:05:17,650 just a little over a year old in fact 103 00:05:24,610 --> 00:05:21,949 the site i just realized is exactly as 104 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:24,620 old as skeptically speaking it's all 105 00:05:28,570 --> 00:05:26,810 right because it because they launched 106 00:05:31,140 --> 00:05:28,580 the same weekend that the body count 107 00:05:33,790 --> 00:05:31,150 launched so i just heard an interesting 108 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:33,800 explanation for how this happened how 109 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:35,810 you actually came to set the site up I 110 00:05:39,460 --> 00:05:37,250 think it's something to do with the 111 00:05:42,159 --> 00:05:39,470 novellas is that right yes yes it is and 112 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:42,169 throughout 2008 on the skeptics guide to 113 00:05:46,810 --> 00:05:45,050 the universe Steve would mention every 114 00:05:49,750 --> 00:05:46,820 now and then about Jenny McCarthy having 115 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:49,760 a body count and then Phil Plait would 116 00:05:54,430 --> 00:05:52,370 blog about it on bad astronomy and but 117 00:05:57,250 --> 00:05:54,440 it was really Steve that kept referring 118 00:06:01,960 --> 00:05:57,260 to her having a body count and in a 119 00:06:04,180 --> 00:06:01,970 January of 2009 I decided to figure out 120 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:04,190 what that number was right and that was 121 00:06:10,029 --> 00:06:07,370 the idea I had I have a political blog 122 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:10,039 that I run it's on hiatus right now 123 00:06:15,189 --> 00:06:12,250 called conservative truths and it used 124 00:06:17,850 --> 00:06:15,199 Census Bureau statistical reports to 125 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:17,860 distinguish an Eliza differences between 126 00:06:24,790 --> 00:06:21,010 conservatives and liberals in the US and 127 00:06:28,060 --> 00:06:24,800 then I stopped that after the election 128 00:06:31,060 --> 00:06:28,070 in 2008 and then I started you know kind 129 00:06:32,950 --> 00:06:31,070 of missing weekly blogging yeah and the 130 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:32,960 body count isn't a blog it sometimes 131 00:06:36,730 --> 00:06:34,849 gets referred to as a blog but it isn't 132 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:36,740 it's a website there's no commenting or 133 00:06:42,939 --> 00:06:39,050 anything like that that would be part of 134 00:06:44,980 --> 00:06:42,949 a blog but I decided like okay let me go 135 00:06:46,659 --> 00:06:44,990 through the CDC website and figure out 136 00:06:49,050 --> 00:06:46,669 how to do this and I and I asked Steve 137 00:06:51,460 --> 00:06:49,060 and I asked Phil if they had any 138 00:06:54,310 --> 00:06:51,470 recommendations on where to get the 139 00:06:56,140 --> 00:06:54,320 numbers and they weren't sure they were 140 00:07:00,719 --> 00:06:56,150 pulling their stuff off of news reports 141 00:07:02,740 --> 00:07:00,729 but on Jim under down who is the 142 00:07:05,050 --> 00:07:02,750 executive director of the Center for 143 00:07:07,629 --> 00:07:05,060 inquiry in Los Angeles and also the 144 00:07:09,219 --> 00:07:07,639 chair of the independent investigations 145 00:07:12,310 --> 00:07:09,229 group which is another group that I'm a 146 00:07:13,250 --> 00:07:12,320 part of he said that he used to 147 00:07:15,380 --> 00:07:13,260 subscribe to 148 00:07:18,770 --> 00:07:15,390 the morbidity and mortality weekly 149 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:18,780 report from the CAC from the CDC when it 150 00:07:25,310 --> 00:07:22,050 was a actual paper publication who as a 151 00:07:27,980 --> 00:07:25,320 coffee table piece yeah and so I went 152 00:07:30,050 --> 00:07:27,990 and found out online and I started okay 153 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:30,060 when did Jenny McCarthy start talking 154 00:07:34,130 --> 00:07:32,370 about this and it was in june of two 155 00:07:36,650 --> 00:07:34,140 thousand seven like all right let's 156 00:07:38,390 --> 00:07:36,660 start adding up the numbers and figuring 157 00:07:40,910 --> 00:07:38,400 out what they are so how often do you 158 00:07:44,540 --> 00:07:40,920 update the website i try to do it every 159 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:44,550 week the the new reports come out on 160 00:07:49,490 --> 00:07:46,890 fridays so usually it's friday saturday 161 00:07:51,050 --> 00:07:49,500 or sunday that i try to post it and do 162 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:51,060 you know what the latest numbers are 163 00:08:06,170 --> 00:07:54,530 Derek it's over 500 but I can find out 164 00:08:10,010 --> 00:08:06,180 so it is as of jun 26 22,000 1060 1625 165 00:08:13,220 --> 00:08:10,020 vaccine preventable illnesses and 516 166 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:13,230 vaccine preventable deaths now with the 167 00:08:19,340 --> 00:08:16,290 Des ninety-nine percent of those are due 168 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:19,350 to influenza-associated pediatric 169 00:08:25,310 --> 00:08:23,370 mortality because the desk the way that 170 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:25,320 the CDC does it which doesn't make a lot 171 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:27,930 of sense the CDC website is not very 172 00:08:33,710 --> 00:08:30,570 well organized but the death data is 173 00:08:34,820 --> 00:08:33,720 only released annually on the three-year 174 00:08:37,430 --> 00:08:34,830 delay 175 00:08:39,170 --> 00:08:37,440 you know so this I'm any week now 176 00:08:41,990 --> 00:08:39,180 they're going to release the numbers for 177 00:08:43,990 --> 00:08:42,000 2007 yeah so there will be a jump in the 178 00:08:46,310 --> 00:08:44,000 numbers once I get the numbers for 179 00:08:48,650 --> 00:08:46,320 pertussis measles rubella you know 180 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:48,660 whatever deaths have happened for that 181 00:08:55,220 --> 00:08:53,090 but nine ninety-nine percent of it is 182 00:08:57,410 --> 00:08:55,230 influenza-associated pediatric mortality 183 00:08:59,510 --> 00:08:57,420 and the other one percent are things 184 00:09:02,480 --> 00:08:59,520 that show up in the other part of the 185 00:09:05,870 --> 00:09:02,490 the weekly report I know there's an HIV 186 00:09:07,850 --> 00:09:05,880 death in there for some reason the 187 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:07,860 pertussis deaths that have happened 188 00:09:12,410 --> 00:09:10,410 recently have not shown up yet in the 189 00:09:14,090 --> 00:09:12,420 weekly report and I don't know why yeah 190 00:09:16,430 --> 00:09:14,100 yeah there was a whooping cough outbreak 191 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:16,440 yeah well there's an outbreak across the 192 00:09:24,020 --> 00:09:20,610 u.s. the the u.s. numbers we are now 193 00:09:26,660 --> 00:09:24,030 halfway through the year about 194 00:09:29,570 --> 00:09:26,670 seventy-five eighty percent of all of 195 00:09:32,210 --> 00:09:29,580 2009 yeah so we're we are on a huge 196 00:09:34,310 --> 00:09:32,220 outbreak of pertussis in the US and 197 00:09:37,010 --> 00:09:34,320 there have been five deaths in 198 00:09:39,860 --> 00:09:37,020 California but for some reason those 199 00:09:44,300 --> 00:09:39,870 deaths have not been reported yet on the 200 00:09:47,060 --> 00:09:44,310 CDC's weekly report okay right so there 201 00:09:48,860 --> 00:09:47,070 was some talk a while ago that Oprah 202 00:09:50,930 --> 00:09:48,870 might begin to offer Jenny McCarthy a 203 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:50,940 talk show of her own do you know any 204 00:09:56,060 --> 00:09:52,650 more information about that well there 205 00:09:57,980 --> 00:09:56,070 was good news last year and then there 206 00:10:00,290 --> 00:09:57,990 was bad news and I can give you a little 207 00:10:03,020 --> 00:10:00,300 insight less the good news Fagin give 208 00:10:06,530 --> 00:10:03,030 you the inside I work professionally in 209 00:10:10,300 --> 00:10:06,540 the in Hollywood in the television 210 00:10:14,870 --> 00:10:10,310 industry all right and someone I know 211 00:10:17,890 --> 00:10:14,880 was working on the pilot for the Jenny 212 00:10:20,540 --> 00:10:17,900 McCarthy talk show oh and they were 213 00:10:22,130 --> 00:10:20,550 three days into building the set and 214 00:10:24,710 --> 00:10:22,140 designing and painting it and getting 215 00:10:26,690 --> 00:10:24,720 all set to go and then on one day the 216 00:10:29,300 --> 00:10:26,700 execs came down is like it's over we're 217 00:10:30,350 --> 00:10:29,310 scrapping it we're going to use the set 218 00:10:32,060 --> 00:10:30,360 we're going to pay you for the rest of 219 00:10:34,820 --> 00:10:32,070 the week but the sets now going to be 220 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:34,830 used just for interviews for a host for 221 00:10:37,670 --> 00:10:36,450 some other like game show totally 222 00:10:40,010 --> 00:10:37,680 unrelated Wow 223 00:10:42,650 --> 00:10:40,020 and no one knew what had happened and 224 00:10:44,750 --> 00:10:42,660 then they realize that go home they they 225 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:44,760 go to the newsstand and see that's the 226 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:47,490 week that newsweek cover article of 227 00:10:53,750 --> 00:10:51,330 oprah being back you know they can build 228 00:10:55,550 --> 00:10:53,760 a sanotica the bad medicine article from 229 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:55,560 Newsbeat lane they pulled the plug on 230 00:11:00,530 --> 00:10:57,330 the jenny mccarthy talk show that damn 231 00:11:03,290 --> 00:11:00,540 right I all but in the last month 232 00:11:04,820 --> 00:11:03,300 they've shot another pilot with Jenny 233 00:11:07,820 --> 00:11:04,830 McCarthy for the genetic Dorothy talk 234 00:11:09,949 --> 00:11:07,830 show so now it's been a year or so so 235 00:11:13,780 --> 00:11:09,959 now they think maybe the Fuehrer has 236 00:11:18,829 --> 00:11:13,790 died down on on Oprah's bad medicine 237 00:11:20,900 --> 00:11:18,839 stuff so they they have as far as I know 238 00:11:22,579 --> 00:11:20,910 they have actually shot the pilot but 239 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:22,589 they haven't decided on whether or not 240 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:24,570 it's going to become a TV show or not 241 00:11:28,670 --> 00:11:26,850 okay so one of the great things about 242 00:11:30,740 --> 00:11:28,680 your website too is you have a little 243 00:11:33,290 --> 00:11:30,750 widget that if someone has a blog they 244 00:11:35,329 --> 00:11:33,300 can copy the text from your blog and put 245 00:11:37,699 --> 00:11:35,339 it into there there's and then update 246 00:11:40,070 --> 00:11:37,709 that with the numbers as it happens what 247 00:11:42,820 --> 00:11:40,080 Martin Robbins from from the Leigh 248 00:11:46,370 --> 00:11:42,830 scientist from the UK yeah he built that 249 00:11:49,370 --> 00:11:46,380 I don't have any idea how he built it or 250 00:11:51,769 --> 00:11:49,380 how it does what it does but he but he 251 00:11:54,530 --> 00:11:51,779 built that there's some weird delay it's 252 00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:54,540 not updating automatically like it 253 00:12:00,620 --> 00:11:57,360 should so he has to force it every now 254 00:12:03,170 --> 00:12:00,630 and then to update the numbers on so I 255 00:12:05,750 --> 00:12:03,180 know he's working it it's like I built 256 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:05,760 the seitan up in iweb as part of the 257 00:12:13,220 --> 00:12:10,170 aisle I you know thing because I used to 258 00:12:15,530 --> 00:12:13,230 build this stuff I'm not a web designer 259 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:15,540 I bill I'm really good at modifying 260 00:12:21,019 --> 00:12:17,970 templates to make it do what I want and 261 00:12:23,510 --> 00:12:21,029 all i wanted for the site was one number 262 00:12:24,769 --> 00:12:23,520 for the illnesses one number for the 263 00:12:27,470 --> 00:12:24,779 deaths and that you would click on it 264 00:12:30,079 --> 00:12:27,480 and I just like I wanted it simple and I 265 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:30,089 couldn't find a template is like I I 266 00:12:34,699 --> 00:12:32,370 used to use adobe golive but that has 267 00:12:36,260 --> 00:12:34,709 been discontinued and now dreamweaver is 268 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:36,270 part of it i don't have a clue how to 269 00:12:40,460 --> 00:12:38,970 use dreamweaver and like okay the new 270 00:12:42,180 --> 00:12:40,470 version of ilife came out let me go take 271 00:12:44,730 --> 00:12:42,190 a look at that like oh 272 00:12:47,790 --> 00:12:44,740 I can make a box I can oh ok I can just 273 00:12:51,870 --> 00:12:47,800 do here easy yeah it's all built it's 274 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:51,880 all built using I life all right okay so 275 00:12:57,420 --> 00:12:53,770 when's the second anniversary at the 276 00:13:03,120 --> 00:12:57,430 website Derek um let's see it would be 277 00:13:05,100 --> 00:13:03,130 in the last weekend in march two 278 00:13:06,390 --> 00:13:05,110 thousand eleven eleven right i mean i 279 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:06,400 would say it's something to celebrate 280 00:13:10,050 --> 00:13:08,530 but it's not really no it should i 281 00:13:12,060 --> 00:13:10,060 really wish that we didn't have to have 282 00:13:14,940 --> 00:13:12,070 this no you're absolutely right i mean i 283 00:13:16,350 --> 00:13:14,950 think but i think you know it is good 284 00:13:19,410 --> 00:13:16,360 that you are keeping track of it's tough 285 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:19,420 because sometimes people think oh it 286 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:20,530 doesn't really matter what she says 287 00:13:23,820 --> 00:13:21,970 she's not really having an impact but 288 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:23,830 people do this to join in the car and 289 00:13:28,830 --> 00:13:26,890 she does know about the site I I have 290 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:28,840 direct knowledge that she knows about 291 00:13:34,380 --> 00:13:31,930 the site and is very unhappy about right 292 00:13:36,510 --> 00:13:34,390 she thought he thinks it's a personal 293 00:13:38,550 --> 00:13:36,520 attack on her because she's just trying 294 00:13:41,090 --> 00:13:38,560 to help the children yeah but they all 295 00:13:45,530 --> 00:13:41,100 think that I know yeah yeah no I i 296 00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:45,540 happen to know i have an insider ah and 297 00:13:51,390 --> 00:13:50,560 inside is it saying I i spread my you 298 00:13:55,460 --> 00:13:51,400 know it's one of the things I don't 299 00:14:01,230 --> 00:13:59,640 intriguing so give us the URL so we can 300 00:14:05,130 --> 00:14:01,240 send out our listeners to your website 301 00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:05,140 it's ww Jenny McCarthy body count com 302 00:14:11,769 --> 00:14:07,570 it's easy to remember alright thanks for 303 00:14:17,629 --> 00:14:14,569 run club for that thanks for being with 304 00:14:37,339 --> 00:14:17,639 us Derek today at the south point casino 305 00:14:38,959 --> 00:14:37,349 in Las Vegas thank you so much hey 306 00:14:41,539 --> 00:14:38,969 everyone this is mr. deity telling you 307 00:14:43,399 --> 00:14:41,549 about the iig 10th anniversary party 308 00:14:45,499 --> 00:14:43,409 saturday august twenty-first at seven 309 00:14:47,299 --> 00:14:45,509 p.m. at the Center for inquiry in Los 310 00:14:49,009 --> 00:14:47,309 Angeles you are not going to want to 311 00:14:51,109 --> 00:14:49,019 miss this all the cool kids are going to 312 00:14:53,209 --> 00:14:51,119 be there Michael Shermer Carol Tavarez 313 00:14:54,589 --> 00:14:53,219 Eugenie Scott and of course I'm going to 314 00:14:56,029 --> 00:14:54,599 be there picking up the fifty thousand 315 00:14:57,889 --> 00:14:56,039 dollar prize for demonstrating my 316 00:15:00,409 --> 00:14:57,899 paranormal abilities I'm going to turn 317 00:15:02,389 --> 00:15:00,419 the crappy wine that they're serving 318 00:15:06,259 --> 00:15:02,399 there that night undoubtedly into a 319 00:15:07,999 --> 00:15:06,269 really nice 2006 Rica solely Chianti how 320 00:15:10,519 --> 00:15:08,009 about that it's gonna be yummy alright 321 00:15:12,529 --> 00:15:10,529 so come on you got to join us I command 322 00:15:14,179 --> 00:15:12,539 you alright I'm generally not one to lay 323 00:15:22,159 --> 00:15:14,189 down along like that but this is this is 324 00:15:25,099 --> 00:15:22,169 important you gotta be there doing this 325 00:15:27,109 --> 00:15:25,109 is ian and laura from sapphic severe The 326 00:15:29,719 --> 00:15:27,119 Skeptical podcast for he boosts pickles 327 00:15:35,629 --> 00:15:29,729 come listen to all things unholy in the 328 00:15:41,239 --> 00:15:35,639 Holy language at WWF xeo de la maza 329 00:15:43,210 --> 00:15:41,249 Yosef in Australia allen mello cheney 330 00:15:46,699 --> 00:15:43,220 better known to us captain disillusion 331 00:15:49,460 --> 00:15:46,709 lives in north miami beach and is a 332 00:15:52,909 --> 00:15:49,470 youtube phenomenon more than 2 million 333 00:15:55,399 --> 00:15:52,919 viewers a superhero's mission to rid the 334 00:15:58,189 --> 00:15:55,409 world of video fakery and spread the 335 00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:58,199 gospel of critical thinking across the 336 00:16:01,310 --> 00:15:59,040 internet 337 00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:01,320 I caught up with Alan at the amazing 338 00:16:09,860 --> 00:16:07,680 meeting aid with me now is Alan molec 339 00:16:13,430 --> 00:16:09,870 janian hello Alan hi good to be with you 340 00:16:16,249 --> 00:16:13,440 thank you um now what can i say i enjoy 341 00:16:17,930 --> 00:16:16,259 your YouTube clips so much what was the 342 00:16:19,519 --> 00:16:17,940 inspiration for putting this all 343 00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:19,529 together you know it was kind of an 344 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:21,600 accident actually or not an accident but 345 00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:23,730 I kind of came to it gradually I just 346 00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:27,360 started out trying to entertain my 347 00:16:33,170 --> 00:16:30,720 friends and blogs on myspace back in the 348 00:16:36,319 --> 00:16:33,180 day when we actually used myspace um and 349 00:16:38,030 --> 00:16:36,329 it was you know one of one of my blog 350 00:16:42,199 --> 00:16:38,040 entries i just figured i saw this 351 00:16:43,790 --> 00:16:42,209 penguin slap video on youtube you know 352 00:16:45,379 --> 00:16:43,800 you know that where the Penguins walking 353 00:16:47,059 --> 00:16:45,389 on the other any other penguin slaps 354 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:47,069 yeah and he falls through the ice from 355 00:16:51,470 --> 00:16:49,410 the ice and I just you know being 356 00:16:53,059 --> 00:16:51,480 someone that works in visual effects and 357 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:53,069 you know editing and knows about these 358 00:16:57,379 --> 00:16:55,410 things I kind of immediately saw how 359 00:16:59,660 --> 00:16:57,389 that was done and I thought let me just 360 00:17:01,970 --> 00:16:59,670 do a little post about that and right 361 00:17:03,740 --> 00:17:01,980 you know what what I think but I've 362 00:17:07,610 --> 00:17:03,750 needed like a format for it as some kind 363 00:17:09,649 --> 00:17:07,620 of clever whatever stick for it and so I 364 00:17:11,689 --> 00:17:09,659 just made up spontaneously this captain 365 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:11,699 disillusion concept and I wrote it down 366 00:17:15,970 --> 00:17:13,530 and it was basically just you know like 367 00:17:18,770 --> 00:17:15,980 a post an article and later when I 368 00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:18,780 decided you know I wanted to do stuff on 369 00:17:22,159 --> 00:17:20,880 YouTube just kind of try it out or this 370 00:17:24,590 --> 00:17:22,169 whole YouTube things about because I've 371 00:17:28,610 --> 00:17:24,600 done short films and everything like 372 00:17:30,289 --> 00:17:28,620 that I just figured let me adapt this 373 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:30,299 for the screen and just use this as a 374 00:17:33,950 --> 00:17:32,610 script and that's what I did and then I 375 00:17:36,350 --> 00:17:33,960 did another one and the response was 376 00:17:38,419 --> 00:17:36,360 really surprising I didn't realize there 377 00:17:40,669 --> 00:17:38,429 was like you know an actual audience for 378 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:40,679 this kind of thing and I continue to do 379 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:42,570 stuff like that 380 00:17:48,379 --> 00:17:45,330 so when did the character first make his 381 00:17:50,870 --> 00:17:48,389 appearance well like I said I when I 382 00:17:54,289 --> 00:17:50,880 when I needed to create a video out of 383 00:17:55,999 --> 00:17:54,299 the blog I just thought what would be a 384 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:56,009 good attention-grabbing so the 385 00:17:59,990 --> 00:17:57,690 characters as old as that yeah exactly 386 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:00,000 it was he basically completely made up 387 00:18:03,799 --> 00:18:02,130 as a as you know but I didn't know what 388 00:18:06,740 --> 00:18:03,809 you know what he might look like or 389 00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:06,750 anything it's just something some hero 390 00:18:11,749 --> 00:18:09,440 named captain disillusion yeah 391 00:18:13,370 --> 00:18:11,759 hypothetically made up and then when it 392 00:18:15,649 --> 00:18:13,380 came time to visualize him I just 393 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:15,659 thought what do I have at hand yeah to 394 00:18:19,009 --> 00:18:17,250 kind of yeah because I haven't seen 395 00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:19,019 anything quite like that I mean it's 396 00:18:22,909 --> 00:18:21,120 such a such an easy thing to do I don't 397 00:18:26,570 --> 00:18:22,919 put it down like that but it's such a 398 00:18:28,580 --> 00:18:26,580 simple way to look at it yeah character 399 00:18:30,289 --> 00:18:28,590 but it is very effective there's the 400 00:18:33,169 --> 00:18:30,299 silver on the face like that yeah I just 401 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:33,179 thought what's a you know what what what 402 00:18:36,730 --> 00:18:35,250 can grab people's attention and really 403 00:18:39,409 --> 00:18:36,740 because it's supposed to be a superhero 404 00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:39,419 what haven't we seen before what's in 405 00:18:44,210 --> 00:18:42,240 what do I have and my disposal that I 406 00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:44,220 can actually pull off in terms of attire 407 00:18:48,649 --> 00:18:45,600 and makeup and that's what I had you 408 00:18:53,210 --> 00:18:48,659 know mmm I got some of this chrome 409 00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:53,220 colored makeup in the local party store 410 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:55,200 and I had all this close and I just kind 411 00:18:58,999 --> 00:18:56,850 of you know I would have done my whole 412 00:19:01,039 --> 00:18:59,009 face but it's too much work so it was 413 00:19:02,659 --> 00:19:01,049 ready you didn't it look good little 414 00:19:05,690 --> 00:19:02,669 half the face looks great and it's sort 415 00:19:07,340 --> 00:19:05,700 of you know it works out in terms of you 416 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:07,350 know it's like illusion revealing 417 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:09,690 reality and which one is the reality yes 418 00:19:13,789 --> 00:19:11,970 I presume yeah now you've made some 419 00:19:15,919 --> 00:19:13,799 really interesting videos the latest one 420 00:19:19,399 --> 00:19:15,929 you put up is there are two versions one 421 00:19:21,649 --> 00:19:19,409 in 3d yes there's one in 2d 2d the 3d 422 00:19:24,860 --> 00:19:21,659 one must have been a lot of work yeah 423 00:19:27,289 --> 00:19:24,870 you know if if people watch my videos 424 00:19:29,509 --> 00:19:27,299 they probably know it is that I kind of 425 00:19:31,399 --> 00:19:29,519 tried to do something new each time I 426 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:31,409 mean there is a format that needs to be 427 00:19:34,970 --> 00:19:33,210 maintained but I I'm really the kind of 428 00:19:38,180 --> 00:19:34,980 person that I just don't like going over 429 00:19:41,509 --> 00:19:38,190 the same territory and I wanted like one 430 00:19:43,610 --> 00:19:41,519 up myself each time so I thought what 431 00:19:45,980 --> 00:19:43,620 you know what what could be like an 432 00:19:47,450 --> 00:19:45,990 interesting visual thing this time to 433 00:19:50,180 --> 00:19:47,460 keep people entertained keep people 434 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:50,190 engaged and 3ds then you know there's 435 00:19:55,730 --> 00:19:53,970 been a lot of sort of 3d developments 436 00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:55,740 and pop culture movies coming 437 00:20:00,620 --> 00:19:58,080 3d it's sort of uh oh it's very big man 438 00:20:02,030 --> 00:20:00,630 figure in a so so I thought let me try 439 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:02,040 that because I am also interested 440 00:20:06,049 --> 00:20:04,050 because this is part of visual effects 441 00:20:08,900 --> 00:20:06,059 part of technology moviemaking 442 00:20:10,430 --> 00:20:08,910 technology so I've been kind of learning 443 00:20:13,220 --> 00:20:10,440 about it and studying and thought let me 444 00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:13,230 try with my own efforts to to kind of 445 00:20:19,130 --> 00:20:16,080 harness this but obviously it's so I 446 00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:19,140 don't think it's it's it's there yet for 447 00:20:23,180 --> 00:20:21,360 independent filmmakers to to tackle no 448 00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:23,190 but it's good that you're trying I think 449 00:20:25,750 --> 00:20:24,240 it's good it's good that you did 450 00:20:28,460 --> 00:20:25,760 actually do one because it shows you 451 00:20:30,590 --> 00:20:28,470 your being creative and what's the new 452 00:20:32,419 --> 00:20:30,600 thing I'm really proud of how it turned 453 00:20:35,210 --> 00:20:32,429 out actually I thought it was great yeah 454 00:20:38,690 --> 00:20:35,220 because it's basically not it's not 455 00:20:40,010 --> 00:20:38,700 twice the work it's actually like 16 456 00:20:42,530 --> 00:20:40,020 times the work because you know you 457 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:42,540 shoot two images and then you do effects 458 00:20:46,850 --> 00:20:44,490 in this is really really complicated 459 00:20:48,620 --> 00:20:46,860 ways you just have two cameras next to 460 00:20:50,990 --> 00:20:48,630 each other yeah I set up two cameras 461 00:20:53,450 --> 00:20:51,000 that are identical I got this kind of a 462 00:20:55,100 --> 00:20:53,460 plate where you can line them up exactly 463 00:20:56,930 --> 00:20:55,110 you know the base for the cameras and 464 00:20:58,280 --> 00:20:56,940 that's just part of it you know you have 465 00:20:59,480 --> 00:20:58,290 to sync them up you have to make sure 466 00:21:01,370 --> 00:20:59,490 everything looks the same and once 467 00:21:04,430 --> 00:21:01,380 you're once you have the footage in 468 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:04,440 post-production you have to figure out a 469 00:21:09,980 --> 00:21:07,050 way to to handle it to you know sync up 470 00:21:12,770 --> 00:21:09,990 all of these dual images and then edit 471 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:12,780 them and you actually control which 472 00:21:16,790 --> 00:21:14,970 parts of the image are in front of the 473 00:21:19,460 --> 00:21:16,800 screen so topping out at you and which 474 00:21:21,470 --> 00:21:19,470 are in deep inside by converging the two 475 00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:21,480 images side like sort of to the sides 476 00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:24,809 and so that that's sort of another sort 477 00:21:28,430 --> 00:21:26,370 of thing to take care of in every single 478 00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:28,440 shot so you're not going to be making 479 00:21:32,090 --> 00:21:30,480 too many more in the near future I think 480 00:21:34,100 --> 00:21:32,100 not yeah and you can YouTube isn't 481 00:21:35,390 --> 00:21:34,110 really given a lot of incentive for 482 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:35,400 these kind of videos to be made because 483 00:21:41,390 --> 00:21:38,610 I mean like you can't you can't earn 484 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:41,400 revenue on them for example because once 485 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:43,650 when you submit videos I mean I don't 486 00:21:46,820 --> 00:21:44,850 know how many people are familiar with 487 00:21:49,070 --> 00:21:46,830 like how YouTube works but if you're a 488 00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:49,080 partner you know you can have ads on 489 00:21:54,140 --> 00:21:50,880 your videos and earn money on that but 490 00:21:56,210 --> 00:21:54,150 if you do a 3d video they actually it 491 00:21:59,360 --> 00:21:56,220 only can work in like the old style 492 00:22:01,700 --> 00:21:59,370 video player that doesn't support 3d so 493 00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:01,710 like the ads have to work in an old 494 00:22:05,060 --> 00:22:03,360 player so the 3d won't work so it's 495 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:05,070 either one or the other if you want your 496 00:22:07,460 --> 00:22:05,730 video to be 497 00:22:09,980 --> 00:22:07,470 yeah making money you can't have it in 498 00:22:11,630 --> 00:22:09,990 3d that's interesting SIA but I'd rather 499 00:22:13,910 --> 00:22:11,640 have it in 3d then make money because I 500 00:22:17,570 --> 00:22:13,920 wanna entertain my audience some of the 501 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:17,580 other videos you've done and in fact you 502 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:20,490 were showing one here last year on stage 503 00:22:27,410 --> 00:22:23,970 which was a where you deconstructed a 504 00:22:29,540 --> 00:22:27,420 video of haunting raid or would open a 505 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:29,550 pantry door I think it was a tantric 506 00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:31,290 ghost the pantry ghost and a little 507 00:22:34,910 --> 00:22:33,120 ghost would appear and they'd opened it 508 00:22:37,010 --> 00:22:34,920 all quickly through the glass right the 509 00:22:38,110 --> 00:22:37,020 threads of classical sense of it and it 510 00:22:41,030 --> 00:22:38,120 was very interesting the way you 511 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:41,040 deconstructed that using the computer 512 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:45,090 imagery and then you did a supplementary 513 00:22:49,580 --> 00:22:47,490 posting about thrive across yeah a 514 00:22:51,980 --> 00:22:49,590 little addendum to actually correct 515 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:51,990 myself yeah because it's one of those 516 00:22:56,690 --> 00:22:54,530 very rare situations where i actually 517 00:23:00,410 --> 00:22:56,700 got it wrong you know I had to 518 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:00,420 re-examine the evidence and you know the 519 00:23:04,370 --> 00:23:02,610 correct myself and and it was i was 520 00:23:07,490 --> 00:23:04,380 actually i actually enjoyed that you 521 00:23:09,260 --> 00:23:07,500 know hmm because that moment it was when 522 00:23:10,340 --> 00:23:09,270 i was editing the first video and i was 523 00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:10,350 putting it together and once you're 524 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:11,910 actually editing and doing effects 525 00:23:15,650 --> 00:23:13,170 you're really really paying close 526 00:23:17,690 --> 00:23:15,660 attention seeing all the pixels of the 527 00:23:19,820 --> 00:23:17,700 images because you you know you're 528 00:23:21,980 --> 00:23:19,830 dealing with them so i just kind of hit 529 00:23:24,980 --> 00:23:21,990 me you know wait a minute there's this 530 00:23:26,570 --> 00:23:24,990 one thing that like i don't remember 531 00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:26,580 exactly what it was and i'll have to 532 00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:28,320 think back but it was like there was one 533 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:30,480 thing that i'm claiming here that this 534 00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:32,250 little shot right here doesn't support 535 00:23:36,140 --> 00:23:34,710 mmm there's no way that my explanation 536 00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:36,150 could be true and then I kind of 537 00:23:39,830 --> 00:23:38,310 suddenly realized how it really wasn't 538 00:23:41,090 --> 00:23:39,840 and the real explanation turned out to 539 00:23:43,100 --> 00:23:41,100 be much more simple you know it wasn't 540 00:23:44,330 --> 00:23:43,110 yeah it wasn't that wasn't any trap 541 00:23:47,150 --> 00:23:44,340 doors there wasn't anything it was just 542 00:23:49,370 --> 00:23:47,160 really kind of the physical arrangement 543 00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:49,380 the geometry of the pantry that allowed 544 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:52,080 a child to actually fit in there and 545 00:23:57,020 --> 00:23:54,690 kind of slip away in in very old schools 546 00:24:00,140 --> 00:23:57,030 or a Charlie Chaplin movie tricks kind 547 00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:00,150 of ways so that the original video is on 548 00:24:04,910 --> 00:24:02,640 youtube wasn't there was uh yeah the 549 00:24:07,010 --> 00:24:04,920 original video it was very popular it's 550 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:07,020 such a like a series of videos it's 551 00:24:10,670 --> 00:24:09,090 going to be there I imagine yeah and it 552 00:24:13,430 --> 00:24:10,680 wasn't it was it wasn't just on youtube 553 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:13,440 it was on like daily motion and some 554 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:15,690 other websites but yeah it's like if the 555 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:18,210 guy the guy did one of them and then he 556 00:24:23,570 --> 00:24:20,610 he repeated it and you know like he kept 557 00:24:24,860 --> 00:24:23,580 sort of documenting this windy ghost but 558 00:24:27,710 --> 00:24:24,870 I felt kind of strange because the first 559 00:24:29,660 --> 00:24:27,720 the first the original video was the 560 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:29,670 episode that i did with with james randi 561 00:24:34,310 --> 00:24:31,530 yeah that was a sir that was it amazing 562 00:24:35,990 --> 00:24:34,320 that was that was so good because that 563 00:24:39,290 --> 00:24:36,000 you play that here didn't you with James 564 00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:39,300 right yes you were to his yeah we did it 565 00:24:44,090 --> 00:24:42,000 at the j orr FEI was really exciting but 566 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:44,100 it's like it was kind of awkward because 567 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:46,530 we I kind of made up this whole thing 568 00:24:50,150 --> 00:24:47,970 it's a nice little fictional you know 569 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:50,160 scene yeah and we kind of paid how much 570 00:24:56,380 --> 00:24:52,770 to contacts to Carl Sagan's contact for 571 00:24:59,270 --> 00:24:56,390 the movie contact but then it turned out 572 00:25:01,430 --> 00:24:59,280 you know it's written in the story that 573 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:01,440 he sort of assists me with figuring out 574 00:25:04,730 --> 00:25:03,090 the secret but that's the secret that we 575 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:04,740 kind of got wrong so I had to make sure 576 00:25:08,210 --> 00:25:06,570 to tell everybody you guys this is just 577 00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:08,220 the script this is just a fictional 578 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:09,600 thing James Randi could never get it 579 00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:13,290 wrong like that you know but it went 580 00:25:16,220 --> 00:25:14,880 down well here ya everyone everyone 581 00:25:17,780 --> 00:25:16,230 loved that I think it's I think people 582 00:25:19,460 --> 00:25:17,790 appreciate more when you go when you 583 00:25:21,260 --> 00:25:19,470 correct yourself and you make sure that 584 00:25:22,610 --> 00:25:21,270 you you did the right thing and of 585 00:25:25,460 --> 00:25:22,620 course in your videos you have your 586 00:25:27,500 --> 00:25:25,470 little sidekick yeah mr. Flair mr. Flair 587 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:27,510 will be just something you dreamt up 588 00:25:31,580 --> 00:25:30,210 yeah that was again just when you need 589 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:31,590 something you make it up and all of a 590 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:33,810 sudden you know you have it was an 591 00:25:38,030 --> 00:25:36,690 episode about like a fire if there's 592 00:25:40,550 --> 00:25:38,040 something people were seeing a ghost 593 00:25:42,980 --> 00:25:40,560 floating around a bonfire and it was a 594 00:25:46,790 --> 00:25:42,990 very clear example of what a lens flare 595 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:46,800 and the camera is so I thought what who 596 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:48,450 better to explain what a lens flare is 597 00:25:54,350 --> 00:25:52,170 in a lens flare um yeah just uh and now 598 00:25:55,940 --> 00:25:54,360 I'm kind of insecure because he's 599 00:25:58,090 --> 00:25:55,950 becoming more popular than captain 600 00:26:00,950 --> 00:25:58,100 disillusion himself is getting more fans 601 00:26:04,340 --> 00:26:00,960 might need to need to put him in his 602 00:26:06,260 --> 00:26:04,350 place Fleming it he's becoming a diva 603 00:26:07,470 --> 00:26:06,270 put him in a little little box mock 604 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:07,480 layer open 605 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:12,490 I become so but and also the the way 606 00:26:17,310 --> 00:26:15,010 that we see captain disillusion usually 607 00:26:19,290 --> 00:26:17,320 is sitting in the floor on the floor in 608 00:26:21,450 --> 00:26:19,300 a corner yeah that's quite interesting 609 00:26:23,310 --> 00:26:21,460 this is just again something you just 610 00:26:26,130 --> 00:26:23,320 wrapped up something dreamt up partly 611 00:26:28,050 --> 00:26:26,140 you know it's it's a it's a web video 612 00:26:30,810 --> 00:26:28,060 I'm doing it at home i'm doing it by my 613 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:30,820 own means so what can I do that's sort 614 00:26:36,030 --> 00:26:33,850 of visually striking but you know I have 615 00:26:37,740 --> 00:26:36,040 a room in my house with that's what I 616 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:37,750 have to use but I just thought I did 617 00:26:44,460 --> 00:26:41,170 kind of when I think back about I did 618 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:44,470 now I I wanted to do something kind of 619 00:26:48,690 --> 00:26:46,330 like abstract a little bit on this guy 620 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:48,700 very minimalist kind of set yeah I think 621 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:50,410 I wasn't I haven't said this to anyone 622 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:52,090 else but I'm just thinking now that I 623 00:26:57,300 --> 00:26:53,850 think I was partly inspired by this 624 00:27:00,000 --> 00:26:57,310 there's this short animated series I 625 00:27:02,610 --> 00:27:00,010 used to play on mtv in the US and the 626 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:02,620 90s called the max and it's based on 627 00:27:08,250 --> 00:27:03,730 this comic book but yeah it had this 628 00:27:10,980 --> 00:27:08,260 very young kind of new are kind of weird 629 00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:10,990 style that I don't know like I think 630 00:27:15,930 --> 00:27:14,320 visually just having this like long pull 631 00:27:17,670 --> 00:27:15,940 up into this corner and just this 632 00:27:20,130 --> 00:27:17,680 character there for no reason just like 633 00:27:21,810 --> 00:27:20,140 a bum I think I was subconsciously 634 00:27:25,410 --> 00:27:21,820 inspired by that's good it struck me 635 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:25,420 when I when I first saw the character it 636 00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:27,130 I mean apart from the makeup which was 637 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:28,960 different the fact that he's sitting in 638 00:27:35,670 --> 00:27:33,610 the corner of a room but it's not a room 639 00:27:37,710 --> 00:27:35,680 it's just like this weird space was a 640 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:37,720 corner ray see what I mean because you 641 00:27:40,890 --> 00:27:39,130 don't know if there's anything behind 642 00:27:42,810 --> 00:27:40,900 the camera if you don't know how far it 643 00:27:45,450 --> 00:27:42,820 goes and yeah and along it as the 644 00:27:47,010 --> 00:27:45,460 episodes go on your kind of we should do 645 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:47,020 different things with the set and reveal 646 00:27:50,850 --> 00:27:48,730 it you know like things open up the 647 00:27:54,570 --> 00:27:50,860 walls open a better space and so I think 648 00:27:57,420 --> 00:27:54,580 I'm maybe building up kind of a canon of 649 00:27:59,040 --> 00:27:57,430 like how what is this place and maybe 650 00:28:01,260 --> 00:27:59,050 eventually we'll find out where this is 651 00:28:03,420 --> 00:28:01,270 located and how you know 652 00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:03,430 that would be interesting so hot from 653 00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:04,960 the Penguins of course you started with 654 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:06,910 the the 3d one now that was dealing with 655 00:28:13,170 --> 00:28:09,250 football yeah some American blood boils 656 00:28:16,620 --> 00:28:13,180 yeah that it's a series of viral videos 657 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:16,630 viral dia commercials but yeah and it's 658 00:28:20,910 --> 00:28:18,490 all it's similar to the guy catching 659 00:28:23,550 --> 00:28:20,920 glasses with face it's it's another kind 660 00:28:24,750 --> 00:28:23,560 of viral yeah basically their 661 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:24,760 commercials and then go down by 662 00:28:30,510 --> 00:28:28,090 companies but I think it's fun to do you 663 00:28:33,090 --> 00:28:30,520 know we know they're fake but they're 664 00:28:34,380 --> 00:28:33,100 fake in a very sophisticated way so it's 665 00:28:36,210 --> 00:28:34,390 interesting to kind of figure out the 666 00:28:40,380 --> 00:28:36,220 details of the effects technique use 667 00:28:42,450 --> 00:28:40,390 techniques used but in other cases that 668 00:28:45,060 --> 00:28:42,460 the explanation might be simple but you 669 00:28:46,710 --> 00:28:45,070 know it's actual people being charlatans 670 00:28:48,750 --> 00:28:46,720 and all kind of spreading this kind of 671 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:48,760 something in some situations and you 672 00:28:53,910 --> 00:28:51,490 took a pot Derren Brown yeah that was 673 00:28:55,710 --> 00:28:53,920 that was kind of it was the lottery 674 00:29:01,140 --> 00:28:55,720 wasn't that's right yeah I was it was 675 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:01,150 part of the tam tam 7 overview video the 676 00:29:06,510 --> 00:29:04,170 school which you very graciously opened 677 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:06,520 the beaning they came out really well in 678 00:29:10,350 --> 00:29:07,930 fact we would have filmed that a year 679 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:10,360 ago today that's right this is true I 680 00:29:16,170 --> 00:29:12,610 want to thank you your later we're doing 681 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:16,180 there um yeah it's uh during the 682 00:29:20,010 --> 00:29:18,130 conference this topic was sort of 683 00:29:23,100 --> 00:29:20,020 hovering in the air they had an I think 684 00:29:24,570 --> 00:29:23,110 a panel about I I don't remember exactly 685 00:29:28,890 --> 00:29:24,580 what it's called it was like about 686 00:29:31,710 --> 00:29:28,900 ethics of imagine magic yeah I'm is that 687 00:29:34,380 --> 00:29:31,720 emily is yeah so the i think that kind 688 00:29:36,060 --> 00:29:34,390 of i found that very interesting one of 689 00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:36,070 the most interesting parts of last 690 00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:38,320 year's conference and so I got it kind 691 00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:40,510 of took off of that and looked around 692 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:43,840 and saw what few people suggested to me 693 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:46,330 this video is this special that he did 694 00:29:52,380 --> 00:29:48,970 mmm and I found it really interesting um 695 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:52,390 but you know I don't think it's I don't 696 00:29:57,630 --> 00:29:55,210 think it steps out of bounds in any way 697 00:29:59,040 --> 00:29:57,640 in terms of what can be what can be 698 00:30:03,690 --> 00:29:59,050 examined what can be looked at because I 699 00:30:07,070 --> 00:30:03,700 thought it's just the way that he 700 00:30:09,210 --> 00:30:07,080 presented it the way that he framed this 701 00:30:11,850 --> 00:30:09,220 this trick new 702 00:30:16,409 --> 00:30:11,860 it was a little bit little bit kind of I 703 00:30:18,419 --> 00:30:16,419 think I think it was a great trick it 704 00:30:20,250 --> 00:30:18,429 worked publicity why's it had a lot of 705 00:30:22,710 --> 00:30:20,260 people interested lots of people saying 706 00:30:24,990 --> 00:30:22,720 how on earth do you do that and yeah I 707 00:30:26,789 --> 00:30:25,000 think that he should have stopped right 708 00:30:29,130 --> 00:30:26,799 there and said thank you very much I'm 709 00:30:31,409 --> 00:30:29,140 happy being entertained by my wonderful 710 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:31,419 illusion but no you did this whole 711 00:30:37,620 --> 00:30:33,970 backup story well backup story it was 712 00:30:40,289 --> 00:30:37,630 really like a way to to make people 713 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:40,299 watch the I think this was like a pilot 714 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:42,370 episode of this series that he was doing 715 00:30:47,250 --> 00:30:45,250 and so this special was meant to get 716 00:30:48,930 --> 00:30:47,260 people to watch the first the next 717 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:48,940 episode where he was going to reveal the 718 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:50,650 secret real and it's like you can yeah 719 00:30:54,090 --> 00:30:52,450 you can play all kinds of it's a 720 00:30:56,399 --> 00:30:54,100 theatrical construct or whatever you 721 00:30:58,200 --> 00:30:56,409 know obviously we know who Derren Brown 722 00:31:00,299 --> 00:30:58,210 as he knows we got magic isn't real but 723 00:31:02,039 --> 00:31:00,309 but then he was just saying very 724 00:31:04,740 --> 00:31:02,049 specific things like I'm going to tell 725 00:31:05,970 --> 00:31:04,750 you how this is done it's not about yeah 726 00:31:08,159 --> 00:31:05,980 it's not about whether it's supernatural 727 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:08,169 not just tell it a secret and and I 728 00:31:11,970 --> 00:31:09,610 thought the secret was really cool like 729 00:31:13,409 --> 00:31:11,980 and I don't know a hundred percent that 730 00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:13,419 I am correct because I don't have any 731 00:31:19,260 --> 00:31:15,039 inside information as to how that was 732 00:31:21,539 --> 00:31:19,270 done but this is the most kind of the 733 00:31:24,690 --> 00:31:21,549 only like really really supportable 734 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:24,700 method that I can mmm but the thing that 735 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:28,090 he presented as yeah why it was done was 736 00:31:34,020 --> 00:31:30,970 I'm sure to most people listening to the 737 00:31:35,820 --> 00:31:34,030 show was laughable right what is he 738 00:31:36,899 --> 00:31:35,830 trying to do who's this kind of full but 739 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:36,909 I guess it would have thought some 740 00:31:41,940 --> 00:31:39,370 people yeah i think so and it's the the 741 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:41,950 infomercial style you known drawing it 742 00:31:47,039 --> 00:31:44,770 out and this is diluting it into in this 743 00:31:48,899 --> 00:31:47,049 like long program you know given it 744 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:48,909 piece by piece you almost lose track of 745 00:31:52,049 --> 00:31:50,650 what what we're talking about here so 746 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:52,059 maybe yeah maybe after the break we'll 747 00:31:56,039 --> 00:31:53,650 do the after the break we'll do this and 748 00:31:58,110 --> 00:31:56,049 it was he presented it as some sort of 749 00:32:00,270 --> 00:31:58,120 weed collective consciousness surprise 750 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:00,280 some volunteers i'm thinking a little 751 00:32:06,180 --> 00:32:04,450 bit for me it's well they what i thought 752 00:32:08,070 --> 00:32:06,190 was a great publicity stunt and even if 753 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:08,080 he i would have been so happy if he did 754 00:32:11,789 --> 00:32:09,730 all of that the way the show was but 755 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:11,799 then at the very end still said you know 756 00:32:15,260 --> 00:32:13,330 what actually this is what we did 757 00:32:19,490 --> 00:32:15,270 because this was so much more work than 758 00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:19,500 than this this wisdom of crowd yeah we's 759 00:32:23,330 --> 00:32:21,360 the myth crowd Oh what's something like 760 00:32:26,270 --> 00:32:23,340 that that's right yeah makes you when I 761 00:32:27,980 --> 00:32:26,280 slap your head but i but I like his work 762 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:27,990 and I really look forward to more you 763 00:32:32,630 --> 00:32:30,930 know like I just yeah he's a funny guy 764 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:32,640 it's a good magician a good Mentalist 765 00:32:38,030 --> 00:32:35,850 that yes is so what's uh what's in your 766 00:32:41,060 --> 00:32:38,040 sights next I just want to keep doing 767 00:32:43,490 --> 00:32:41,070 what I do and figure out a way to to 768 00:32:45,340 --> 00:32:43,500 make more videos more often which is 769 00:32:48,410 --> 00:32:45,350 really the only thing people ask of me 770 00:32:51,230 --> 00:32:48,420 and it's it's kind of like I have some 771 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:51,240 help in terms of shooting things mmm but 772 00:32:55,130 --> 00:32:52,890 the editing the visual effects and all 773 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:55,140 the post-production is just done by one 774 00:32:59,240 --> 00:32:57,090 person who actually has a job in the 775 00:33:01,520 --> 00:32:59,250 real world and that's why things can 776 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:01,530 take from two to like six months I know 777 00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:06,050 exactly what you mean because I do 778 00:33:10,580 --> 00:33:08,640 obviously not as many videos as you do 779 00:33:13,190 --> 00:33:10,590 but when I do videos I'm the guy doing 780 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:13,200 the production and the filming and all 781 00:33:17,390 --> 00:33:14,850 that sort of stuff I get help of script 782 00:33:19,820 --> 00:33:17,400 and things like that but I enjoy yeah 783 00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:19,830 sure you do too yeah it's fun I wouldn't 784 00:33:25,190 --> 00:33:21,600 be doing it otherwise it's just one of 785 00:33:28,220 --> 00:33:25,200 those things that you sit there and you 786 00:33:30,530 --> 00:33:28,230 start doing one little effects shots and 787 00:33:33,020 --> 00:33:30,540 you realize this the Sun is down already 788 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:33,030 the day is over and you your one shot 789 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:35,370 ahead ok I have like thirty five more 790 00:33:40,850 --> 00:33:38,370 shots to go now the website of course is 791 00:33:42,530 --> 00:33:40,860 captain disillusion com that's right 792 00:33:45,050 --> 00:33:42,540 it's sort of the central hub where 793 00:33:47,390 --> 00:33:45,060 people can find all my stuff my youtube 794 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:47,400 channel where all the content is all the 795 00:33:51,980 --> 00:33:49,530 good stuff and my facebook page my 796 00:33:54,620 --> 00:33:51,990 Twitter and I write some interesting 797 00:33:56,990 --> 00:33:54,630 articles on there sometimes it's my blog 798 00:33:59,690 --> 00:33:57,000 yes and people can easily contact you 799 00:34:02,150 --> 00:33:59,700 then sure yeah I i would say facebook is 800 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:02,160 the best place because i end up sort of 801 00:34:06,910 --> 00:34:05,250 keeping that like sort of putting the 802 00:34:09,409 --> 00:34:06,920 most updates and checking that the most 803 00:34:11,750 --> 00:34:09,419 but i'm trying to get into twitter more 804 00:34:13,830 --> 00:34:11,760 and build the following there this is a 805 00:34:15,990 --> 00:34:13,840 at captain taught allusion to it 806 00:34:18,060 --> 00:34:16,000 what's you well yeah on Captain decision 807 00:34:20,970 --> 00:34:18,070 to come com there's links to all of them 808 00:34:24,630 --> 00:34:20,980 but on on Twitter its seed this seed 809 00:34:26,460 --> 00:34:24,640 disillusion cted delusion yeah okay and 810 00:34:28,590 --> 00:34:26,470 on on facebook i believe it's 811 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:28,600 facebook.com slash captain disillusion 812 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:31,210 one word okay Alan a great pleasure to 813 00:34:35,100 --> 00:34:33,370 meet up with you again here in tam and 814 00:34:55,770 --> 00:34:35,110 thank you very much thank you for having 815 00:35:01,710 --> 00:34:58,600 thank you for listening to the skeptic 816 00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:01,720 zone now for those people in Australia 817 00:35:06,910 --> 00:35:04,310 especially those people in the acct in 818 00:35:09,700 --> 00:35:06,920 canberra there come along to the king 819 00:35:12,730 --> 00:35:09,710 o'malley's irish pub 131 citywalk 820 00:35:14,590 --> 00:35:12,740 canberra are this coming sour sunday 821 00:35:18,820 --> 00:35:14,600 this coming sunday sunday the 15th of 822 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:18,830 august kicks off around about 1pm and 823 00:35:23,500 --> 00:35:20,810 you can see myself Richard Saunders and 824 00:35:26,890 --> 00:35:23,510 dr. Reggie dr. Rachel Dunlop giving our 825 00:35:29,050 --> 00:35:26,900 talks free to the public come on say 826 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:29,060 hello meet us and enjoy our talks we 827 00:35:35,860 --> 00:35:32,810 look forward to seeing you all there but 828 00:35:42,130 --> 00:35:35,870 until next show this is Richard Saunders 829 00:35:44,530 --> 00:35:42,140 signing off from Sydney Australia you've 830 00:35:49,180 --> 00:35:44,540 been listening to the skeptic zone visit 831 00:35:51,610 --> 00:35:49,190 our website at wwc a petting zoo TV for 832 00:35:58,950 --> 00:35:51,620 comments contacts and extra video